🤗 In this episode of Kinda Different, Matt has the opportunity to chat with Dr. Lauren Gerdin, the Chief Dental Officer at Cherry Tree Dental. They discuss Dr. Gerdin's journey in dentistry, the importance of data in driving innovation, and the values that shape her leadership style. The conversation emphasizes the need for a human-centric approach in dental care, the significance of mentorship, and the empowerment of dental teams to enhance patient experiences.
Watch/listen/read below or check it out on Spotify/Apple Podcasts!
You can get in touch with Lauren here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-gerdin-dds/
Website: https://cherrytreedental.com/
Transcript:
What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Kinda Different, an amazing, fun, awesome dental podcast where we talk about innovation in dental care. We talk about how we can all make dental care more human together, and we connect with some of the best and most amazing guests out there in the dental world.
And today is absolutely no exception to that. Super excited to have Dr. Lauren Gerdin here with us. I'm Dr. Matt Allen.
I'm the CEO and co-founder of DifferentKind, and your host for Kind of Different. And Dr. Lauren, we are so grateful for you being here. Dr. Lauren Gerdin is the Chief Dental Officer at Cherry Tree Dental, up in the kind of northern Midwest Wisconsin area.
We can talk about all the cherry trees. That's where my parents lived for most of the year. So we can talk about why the name is there and all that.
But we're so grateful to have you here with us today. Excited to dive into some of this with you. Tell us a little bit more about yourself, about Cherry Tree, and then we'll jump in.
Awesome. Thanks, Dr. Matt, for having me. I'm super excited to be here, and yeah, it's been fun getting to know you, and thank you for having me.
So yeah, I'm Dr. Lauren Gerdin. I am a midwesterner, grew up in southeastern Wisconsin, and have lived in Wisconsin most of my life. Took a hiatus over to Minnesota, UFTA.
So far. The Twin Cities, went up to dental school in St. Paul and Minneapolis area, and made my way back to Wisconsin, I would say about eight years ago at this point. Ended up in northwestern Wisconsin.
So my family and I live in, I joke, it's kind of podunk. I grew up near Milwaukee, so totally different lifestyle, but have completely fallen in love with it. Made some fantastic friends up here.
We live on a quaint lake and just abide by just being outdoors as much as possible. So we have two kiddos. My husband and I have Eleanor and Theodore.
They're six and four years old. They're so much fun. And then I have my coworker, Benny, the Bernice Mountain Dog, we call him our bear dog.
So he's here with me today. And so yeah, thank you for having me. And that's a little bit about me and personal side of things.
Yeah. Appreciate you sharing. And tell us just a little bit more.
I think your journey actually into kind of the Chief Dental Officer role is really interesting, right? And we'll talk a little bit more about the on the innovation side of things and some of the interesting things that you've done in your career that most dentists have not done. But tell us a little bit more about that journey as well, because I think for a lot of dentists out there, they might be wondering, hey, how do I become a Chief Dental Officer?
What does that look like? And your story is certainly interesting here. So tell us just a little bit more about that.
Yeah, for sure. I think one of the biggest things people wonder is, how are you a Chief Dental Officer so young in your career? I would say it's a little bit of luck, a little bit of lemons, and a little bit of hard work.
So out of dental school, I started practicing with Cherry Tree Dental. We were really small DSO at the time. I would say we had about 10 docs with the group.
And I became really close with the founders, Steve and Jack. I love their mission. They're really focused on work-life balance for the docs, but making sure that we just were stellar providers.
We partnered with Spear and things like that. So just looking at that true comprehensive care approach with the patients and making sure doctors had autonomy on it, but really focusing on quality of care. I practiced, I want to say just around five years.
And when I started to have kids, I would have good days and bad days. My hands started to shake on me a little bit, and I'm like, this isn't normal. In hindsight, my dad has an essential tremor, and I should have probably recognized being in the sciences that my genetics are his.
I started to develop the essential tremor, and so had to look at what's next. Dentistry is not going to be a viable long-term solution for my career, and I spoke with Steve, and he gave me a chance, which is incredible because not many people are fortunate to have that place to leap. So I made a game plan, an out plan with Steve, and looked at joining our home team as VP of Clinical Services.
So I just kind of dove in where they needed me, which at that time was revenue cycle management. So I put my head down and really worked hard on understanding RevCycle. We had been growing really rapidly at that time.
It was COVID. The mergers and acquisitions were plentiful. And so I think our AR suffered with that.
And I helped just completely kind of clean that up and create systems and processes for us to support at the home team level to make sure the clinics were up to snuff with collecting what was rightfully collectible. So that was really fun. And that's what kind of got me first into the mix.
I'd say my breath grew really horizontally. And now at this point, I think a year ago is where I trans, year and a half ago is where I transitioned into more of that true traditional clinical hat role. So Chief Dental Officer is the role I took on last summer and really got to be engaged more in the space that I knew I wanted to be in.
So it's been a fun journey, still learning. Obviously, everyone's a lifelong learner and I have a lot to learn and grow with. But super excited that I'm at where I am now and continue to learn in the space.
I love that and I think there's so much in that story, just in terms of how scary that probably felt. You're like, yeah, this happened and then I was like, what's next? I'm sure that there was a lot of emotions and we could spend a lot of time unpacking that.
But I think what's really interesting there is to know that so many organizations out there need that kind of leadership, need that kind of all the things that you've done, especially as they are growing. And so I think sometimes as dentists, it's easy to be like, this is what I learned in dental school. I say it all the time, I don't think I would ever have guessed I would be where I am 14 years out of dental school now.
I don't think I would have ever guessed and yet here it is. So it's one of those things that's easy to, once you get your dental degree, to say, I imagine that the rest of my career will look like this. For many of us, that's probably just not going to be the case and you kind of have to be excited by where the river is taking you, right?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I love that story. One of the things, let's talk about innovation a little bit here. One of the things that certainly we've connected over is some of the work that you did in the data space in dental and certainly, DifferentKind, obviously, we care deeply about data and producing meaningful data sets that help drive good decision-making for dental groups and for payers and all of that stuff, right?
And I think your experience there certainly has probably shaped how you think about what's possible in dentistry, what kind of data you need to do your job. Tell us just a little bit more about that experience. But then also, what are some of the gaps I think that you see just in terms of the dental space when it comes to data, and how are you attempting to close those, maybe at Cherry Tree as well?
Yeah, for sure. So prior to dental school, I had an internship at Marshfield Clinic, their dental informatics department. And this internship was with Dr. Amit Acharya, who was a dentist overseas and never really did clinical dentistry here in the States, but he was really interested in just data and information, using it to help us to make better clinical decisions and really to make sure we're treating the patients to the best of our abilities.
So I had an amazing time doing that internship. He was such a great mentor. And my focus on that at that time was the oral systemic connection and just how our oral health affects our overall health.
And the decisions that we're making, chair side, can impact that heart attack, that heart, the diabetes. And we don't see it. It's not tangible.
So it's easy to forget about when you're chair side. I was just looking at some charts the other day and one of our doctors just kinda said, hey, if it doesn't hurt, you're okay. But this patient is on warfarin, he has heart disease, had major heart surgery a number of years ago.
It's like, whoa, no, no, no. Just because it's not bothering him right now doesn't mean that that could land him in the hospital. So just being mindful of that and using data and the research that helps build the models and understanding for us to really grasp what we can't see.
So that was a really great internship. And then right before dental school, I also went over to health partners then and did something similar with Brad Rindal and similar situation where we were looking at just using data to understand data from all our patient health records to understand big picture things that we might not fully grasp or understand. So I was looking at SSRIs and how they can impact Brexism and things like that or vice versa, how there's a connection between the two.
So I think data is super valuable, especially all the data we have in our electronic dental records, our medical records. And I think as far as where the industry needs to go, there's gotta be more communication between dental and medical. And I'll say Pacific Dental Services, I think is really on to that right now.
My friend, Kate Egan, is working with them, and they just recently went to Epic Charts. And I know that that's been a bumpy road for the dentists, which I fully get and understand that they probably have some growth there. But being able to connect the charts is gonna be a huge asset.
And just a wealth of data to be able to really treat our patients at a higher level.
Yeah, I love that. And yeah, certainly, I think that, yeah, you're probably on the forefront of that, right, many years ago now. Kind of thinking about those things, and so much of that is obviously so front and center.
We'll be at Health, which is the biggest digital health conference in the country, in a couple of weeks. And certainly, the first time that oral health is really having a presence, and it's all really focused on oral systemic connection. And so much of that, and PDS will be there.
So yeah, lots of really interesting things, I think, happening in that space right now, from startups to big DSOs that really care deeply about that and everywhere in between, right? So, love that you got to see some of that probably when people were like, what are you doing? Like, we're doing dentistry here, we're not thinking about this, right?
So that's awesome. I always love hearing from people who are innovative and thinking in different ways, who inspires them, right? And so I'd love to hear from you, like, is there some person or company or founder that you're like, hey, this person is deeply inspiring to me.
Tell us a little bit about who they are and why, and just curious there.
Yeah, for sure. So someone that's really impacted me is Heidi Arndt. She's a registered dental hygienist, but similar to us, she kind of took a different path, stopped practicing clinically, ended up creating her own hygiene consulting group, sold that successfully, and then went on to become a Chief Operating Officer and then kind of landed in a CEO space for a DSO that is about similar size to mine.
I just happened upon her looking up hygiene articles when I first switched from clinical to that admin side and saw she went to the University of Minnesota as well. So just found her on LinkedIn, reached out hoping to just pick her brain, and she was so kind. She ended up doing an hour Zoom call with me and just really helped me feel grounded and excited for my future.
You're taking a leap of faith and going into the unknown, and just to hear her story and to hear her words of encouragement was huge. You and I got to meet at her conference this past spring, and I'm super excited to go back again. She does the evolving group dentistry conference in the spring through her group.
She currently has evolved dental advisors. So just phenomenal. She's really focused on a mission of organic growth, clinical and operational excellence in DSOs, coming off of COVID, coming off of the rapid mergers and acquisitions, the over leveraging of companies.
We need to do better and we need to focus on that sort of thing. So I love that she's recognizing that, and also just bringing together leaders in the space. I'm on her clinical leadership forum, and super excited that she's brought together some like-minded individuals that we can bounce ideas off of one another and really just learn and grow together to raise the tide for all boats.
So super excited, and she's been fantastic. I'd say she's definitely someone that I am really inspired by and just grateful for her leadership and mentorship.
I love that, yeah. And certainly we would probably not know each other if it weren't for her. So there you go.
Thank you to Heidi, for sure. We'll make sure we tag her in the LinkedIn posts and stuff too. Make sure she listens to this.
So awesome. Thanks for sharing. I love that some of you, we've heard a lot of your story already in some ways, of, hey, here's where you're from and here's what that looked like when you have this kind of, here's this career that I thought I was going to have a certain way and it changed, and how you think about data and some of those things.
Those are all obviously fascinating and we could have lots more discussion around there. But I think one of the things that we've connected over is who we are as people, and some of that stuff as well. So just tell me some of the values, I would say, that shape who you are, how you show up to work, how you lead people.
Because I think that's such an important piece of being our authentic selves when we are leading other, especially professionals who obviously are very knowledgeable in a certain thing. But that oftentimes comes at the expense of certainly in dental school, I didn't learn anything about emotional intelligence or how to leadership any of those pieces. So just tell us about some of your values that you bring into that workspace every day.
Yeah, for sure. So I joke with my husband that both of us just have a really simple rule to abide by, and it's just be good humans, which I guess is perfect for your podcast. And maybe that's why you wanted me on here.
But whether it's our family, our friends, or our colleagues, just staying true to who you are and doing right by others is so important. Trying to look at the world as people are inherently good. I think it's so important.
With that, I think focusing on how you communicate with others, focusing on channel richness is so important. Yes, it's easy to go type out that super long email or write that frustrated text, but it doesn't serve you or the person on the other side, especially if it's a difficult or challenging topic. Being able to see people in person or just even a phone call or a video call.
I always want my teammates and my colleagues on video when I'm talking with them, especially even just doctor interviews. If I'm not meeting them in person, I want to see you on video. I want to have that ability to know who I'm speaking with.
It just adds so much more value there. Just with that channel richness too, if you do receive that text or email that you feel like is a little bit off on the tone, it's giving people grace and the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you're making your own assumptions about it and pick up the phone instead and have a conversation about it.
Obviously, the book Crucial Conversations is one that I highly recommend to anyone, and that's really helped me grow and develop in that space too. As you said, dental school, you don't really learn to be effective communicators, and so taking the effort to kind of learn and hone in your skills there, it's really important.
Oh my God. Yeah. There's, holy, no, just, I mean, so much.
Keep going. Like, I love it. I'm just like, yes, like, this is awesome.
Yes, 100%, right? Like, keep going, keep going if you have more stuff.
Just one of the last things I think is important is, in order for you to be successful, your cup needs to be full. And I try to buy this by myself. I try to make sure my teammates feel this as well.
You gotta put the needs of yourself and your family first and then your work, because if you are putting your work first, you're stressed, your cup's not full, ironically, that work that you're trying to work so hard to get done is going to be compromised because of that. So making sure that you are filling your cup with the things that are important in life, it's crucial, and that pays dividends in the output that you do give to your work. So all of us are guilty of it, but I try to make sure that my team knows that.
Don't go logging in and feeling like that email is urgent when you are spending time with your family, you took the day off, like it can wait, unless there truly is an urgent situation, which is so rare. Most of the time, it truly can wait. So trying to make sure that you have your priorities aligned for your own health, your own family's health is so crucial.
I love that. Yes. I mean, so much there that we could unpack.
Holy cow, that's like two-minute, like how to live a successful life from Dr. Lauren Gerdin right there. It's absolutely amazing. I mean, so much.
That is so hard for so many people, right? I think, and especially if you are a relatively newer dentist, some of those things, right? Like people who are coming into the profession can be really hard.
It can be really challenging. And that is well-won wisdom, certainly, that you just shared with us all right there. And yeah, we could, like I said, could unpack so much of that.
But I mean, just some very basic pieces there that I think, if implemented, can really be transformative for folks. So thank you for sharing and love hearing how you show up. And I'm sure your team appreciates that.
And I'm sure the ways that you're developing humans, it's always one of those things where you're like, man, my goal as a leader always is just to make sure that if people are here for the short term or the long term, that they're a better human than when they started. And yeah, we're going to have some business successes together. We'll probably have some business challenges together.
But if we can help develop more successful humans, then that is certainly the biggest win in my book. So I'm sure you're doing that based on what you just said. So thanks for giving us that insight.
I love it. Well, speaking of making people more human and becoming better humans, obviously, that's such a big part of how we think about dental care, right? Is this kind of missed opportunity to differentiate, to really help not only patients to show up to your practice at Cherry Tree, the many practices that you have, and to have a different experience, to have a different kind of dental experience, because there are people there who are truly human and who do care, etc.
One of the questions that I have for you here when you think about making dental care more human and patient experience in general, tell us about something that you think is important but overlooked, that you try to make sure that you instill in all the clinicians that work for you.
Yeah, for sure. I think everyone is always very mindful about their interactions directly with the patients. I think that it's great.
Everyone's very professional, very courteous, make sure the patients have a good experience. But then they forget about the impact that their own interactions amongst themselves have on a patient's experience. I think being mindful of that is so crucial.
Because those interactions really create the home and the culture of the office and the patients sense that and feel that. Especially as they're waiting in the waiting room or waiting in a chair with an operatory door that doesn't shut, they're hearing what's going on in the background and their experience is very much colored by that. It's so important to be mindful of that.
One of the things that we really try to make sure teams get is starting the day with a morning huddle, starting with just aligning with one another. I think that it's so important because you need to know what your hygienists are doing, you need to know what your front desk is doing, what you need to have alignment amongst parties. When there's multiple hygienists, multiple doctors in a building, if all of a sudden there isn't alignment there, everyone's frustrated with one another because their own personal experience is their lens.
Their lens is dictating how they feel and they're frustrated with the front desk putting in an emergency which shouldn't be in that particular spot, or why haven't you done this hygiene exam yet? And the patients feel that. And if they have anxiety, that just builds even further.
So aligning as a team and being mindful of how you're interacting with your team throughout the day is so crucial. And so I think that's something that we try to have our teams recognize. It's challenging.
Some just want to show up, behave five minutes before the day starts. And it's like, well, if you're frustrated with how your day is going, it's going to continue to be that way unless you make some changes. So yeah, I think patients just really tune in to that.
It's important to have that on your mind with a successful day. So.
Love that. And I think there's something that's really interesting there too from the perspective of like, obviously I think a lot of people look to the dentist as a leader, right? And that is 100% true.
But then I think the best teams often are the ones where the dentist has then taken that leadership and said, how do I use that to empower others?
Right?
And I think one of the things that, you know, it's like, oh yeah, why is this here? I think there's a lot of micromanaging sometimes that happens instead of like, hey, here's the guardrails that we want to operate under. And I think about it like from a sports analogy.
I mean, we've all watched players come into teams, right? Where it's like, maybe they're new to the team or something like young or something. And they play scared, right?
They play afraid to make a mistake. And that is never going to lead to success for that team, right? Like, there's going to be some mistakes, there's going to be some things, but it's all done with that.
Hey, let's assume, you know, best intentions. Let's assume this person's really trying to do the right thing, right? And certainly, like, you know, when I've experienced those kinds of environments where those people do feel empowered then to say, hey, like, we're going to create the rules around scheduling, you know, whatever.
And but you know what, you have the capacity to sometimes break those if it feels like that's appropriate or, you know, whatever that might be, right? Or it's like, I'm giving you the keys to the castle, let's go. You know, feel some, my job is not necessarily to maintain the schedule, right?
My job is to see the patients that are there. And so I just, I love when we can help people to actually stop playing scared and to use that kind of intrinsic power that like our degree and the education and all of that stuff that's just traditionally been bestowed upon us as dental professionals. You know, we can continue to pass along to other members of our team who, we need them to do their job, you know, as effectively as they can.
And when we give them that kind of empowered state, like they're able to do that. So thoughts on that. I'm just curious, you know, that was a little bit of a rant from me there, but I certainly think, you know, sometimes like we just, we want to hold so much, you know, the Chief Everything Officer, right, as a dentist and it like can't happen if we're going to be successful.
Yeah. And I love, I love that analogy, the playing, playing scared. I might, I might need to take that back with me.
Thank you.
Awesome. Lauren, we could certainly go on here and chat about a lot more stuff. Like, you know, I always feel like we, on these conversations, I'm like, man, I just want to, you know, have you back and have a three hour conversation.
And, you know, you certainly can see why there's, you know, these really long form podcasts, because it's just so fun to have these conversations and to learn. And I love it. So thank you for taking the ability to share your, Benny is doing some amazing like rollovers right now behind you.
Like really going for it. I love it. He's like, this is awesome.
Having a great day. So thank you so much for taking the time to join us. If people want to learn more about you, want to learn more about Cherry Tree, want to get in touch with you, and you mentioned, hey, Heidi, like I just reached out to her.
I'm sure people are like, oh, I want to reach out to Lauren. If people want to get in touch with you or just learn more, where would they go? Tell us best ways to get in touch.
Yeah, definitely. I think my LinkedIn would be the best bet. It's, I believe, just Lauren, Gerdin, I think you should be able to tag me in this.
And yeah, I welcome a message. And this has been super fun. My first podcast experience.
So thanks for making this super easy and fun. I appreciate it.
Of course. Yeah, we've had a great time. Always learn something and get to know each other more deeply through the course of these conversations.
So I really appreciate you taking the time, opening up, sharing about your journey and how you see the world. And certainly if we have more people doing the things that you're doing and showing up the way that you show up, man, our industry is going to continue to change for the better and become more human. So thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you for the time. It was really great to talk.
Take care.
Yeah, you too.
