How Can Dentistry Expand Access to Care? Sarah Luetke on Mobile Dentistry, Minimally Invasive Care, and Patient Choice

Dental access is often treated as a geography problem: How do we get more dentists into places that do not have enough of them?

But what if the bigger question is how we redesign dental care around the people who have the hardest time accessing the traditional system?

That is the question at the center of our conversation with Sarah Luetke, founder of Sound Dental Care, dental hygienist, denturist, and co-founder of MOBY Dental.

For more than a decade, Sarah has been building a model that brings dental care directly to geriatric and special-needs populations in nursing homes and care facilities. Sound Dental Care started with Sarah and no patients. Today, the organization has 24 team members and contracts with more than 300 facilities.

Her work raises a much bigger question for dentistry:

What becomes possible when we stop assuming dental care has to be delivered the way it always has been?

The short answer: How can dentistry improve access to care?

Dentistry can improve access by expanding where care is delivered, allowing every member of the dental team to work at the top of their license, offering minimally invasive treatment options, improving financial transparency, and giving patients a meaningful voice in treatment decisions.

Sarah’s work demonstrates how those ideas can work together.

Rather than requiring medically complex or elderly patients to travel to a traditional dental office, Sound Dental Care brings care to them. Instead of assuming every disease process requires an invasive intervention, the team incorporates preventive and minimally invasive approaches. And rather than treating hygienists, denturists, dentists, and other professionals as competing roles, Sarah sees them as parts of the same care team.

The goal is not innovation for innovation’s sake.

It is better access to appropriate care.

Why is mobile dentistry important for older adults and people with special needs?

Traditional dental delivery models create significant barriers for people who live in nursing homes, have limited mobility, experience multiple health conditions, or depend on others for transportation.

Sarah built Sound Dental Care specifically around these populations.

And there is an important distinction here.

When healthcare is brought directly into a workplace, we often describe it as innovative or convenient. When the same idea is applied to a nursing home, it can be viewed primarily as charity or service.

But both are examples of redesigning care around the patient.

For older adults and people with complex health needs, the ability to receive care where they already live can fundamentally change whether dental care is available at all.

That makes mobile dentistry not simply a convenience.

It makes it an access strategy.

What role can dental hygienists and other providers play in improving dental access?

One of the most important ideas from Sarah’s work is that expanding access does not necessarily mean asking dentists to do more.

It may mean enabling the entire dental workforce to do more of what they are already trained and licensed to do.

Washington allows dental hygienists to practice independently in certain settings and is also one of a limited number of states that licenses denturists. Sarah has used that environment to build a care model where different professionals contribute according to their skills and scope.

She is comfortable describing herself as a mid-level provider because she has seen what becomes possible when that role is genuinely empowered.

The goal is not to diminish dentists.

It is to ask a more useful question:

Who is capable of safely delivering this part of a patient's care?

A dentist may be necessary for one intervention. A hygienist may be able to provide another. A denturist may address another need entirely.

A more flexible workforce can help dentistry meet patients where they are instead of forcing every patient through the same delivery model.

What is minimally invasive dentistry?

Minimally invasive dentistry seeks to prevent or manage oral disease while preserving as much healthy tooth structure as possible and reducing unnecessary intervention.

That does not mean fillings, crowns, extractions, or other conventional treatments disappear.

It means those treatments are not automatically the only options presented to patients.

Sarah experienced this firsthand while treating nursing home residents. Many patients had dry mouth, root caries, significant medical complexity, or other conditions that made traditional invasive treatment difficult or undesirable.

Silver diamine fluoride, or SDF, gave her another tool.

Instead of choosing only between invasive treatment and doing nothing, patients could sometimes have an additional disease-management option.

That change in the treatment menu matters.

As Sarah explains in the episode, dentistry increasingly has multiple levels of intervention available. The question becomes which option makes the most sense for this patient, at this point in their life, given their health, goals, preferences, and circumstances.

Is silver diamine fluoride only for children?

No.

Silver diamine fluoride is often associated with pediatric dentistry, but Sarah argues that its usefulness extends well beyond children.

Her experience using SDF with geriatric patients was one of the catalysts behind MOBY Dental.

Families and legal decision-makers would learn about minimally invasive options while working with Sound Dental Care, then ask why those same options had never been discussed in their own dental offices.

Some returned to their dentists and were told SDF was only for children or for limited circumstances.

That gap between available treatment options and patient awareness helped Sarah recognize a broader problem: patients interested in minimally invasive dentistry often did not know where to find providers who offered it.

What is MOBY Dental?

MOBY Dental is a nonprofit created to educate patients about minimally invasive dental care and connect them with providers who offer those options.

The idea grew directly from Sarah’s work at Sound Dental Care.

Patients and families were learning that alternatives to traditional restorative treatment sometimes existed, but they were struggling to find clinicians who offered them.

MOBY aims to close that gap.

For providers, it is also a community of clinicians who believe patients should have access to a broader range of evidence-informed treatment options.

Importantly, being a minimally invasive provider does not mean never performing conventional dentistry.

The principle is choice.

When multiple appropriate options exist, patients should know about them.

Why does patient choice matter in dentistry?

Dental treatment frequently involves decisions where more than one clinically reasonable path exists.

Yet patients can easily feel as though treatment happens to them rather than with them.

A clinician identifies a problem. A treatment is recommended. The patient is told what it costs. Then the patient either accepts or declines.

That may technically constitute a choice, but it does not always feel like meaningful participation.

A more patient-centered approach explains:

What is happening?

What are the reasonable options?

What are the benefits and risks of each?

What happens if we do nothing right now?

What will each option cost?

What matters most to the patient?

Giving people that information changes the relationship.

Patients become participants in care rather than passengers.

How does cost transparency build trust with dental patients?

Cost is part of the clinical experience whether clinicians want it to be or not.

Sarah describes seeing this clearly during her years practicing hygiene.

She would spend most of an appointment educating a patient about what she saw and why treatment might be appropriate. A dentist might then confirm the diagnosis and treatment recommendation but leave the financial conversation to someone in another room.

Sarah chose a different approach.

She talked about the uncomfortable part.

She showed patients their photographs and radiographs. She explained the disease process. She discussed why the treatment was being recommended. And she addressed the questions patients actually had, including what the care would cost.

The result was not a more aggressive sales process.

It was greater understanding.

When patients understand both the clinical reasoning and financial implications, they are better equipped to decide whether treatment fits their needs.

Transparency can therefore become part of trust rather than something separate from clinical care.

Can minimally invasive dentistry improve affordability?

It can create additional options in some situations, but minimally invasive care should not be presented as a universal replacement for traditional treatment.

That nuance is important.

Some patients will still need restorative or surgical care.

But when prevention, disease management, or less invasive interventions are clinically appropriate, they can add another path between extensive treatment and no treatment at all.

For Sarah, that matters because one of her biggest concerns is patients feeling forced to choose between their finances and their health.

When the only option presented is financially overwhelming, some patients simply disengage.

A broader range of appropriate options can make the conversation different.

What is preventing these models from becoming more common?

Changing dental care requires navigating systems built around older assumptions.

Scope-of-practice regulations vary.

Payment models influence what gets delivered.

Dental education reinforces familiar approaches.

Teams may resist unfamiliar clinical methods.

And professional groups can disagree about which providers should perform particular services.

Sarah’s response to those barriers is notable.

She emphasizes collaboration rather than confrontation.

Dentists are needed.

Hygienists are needed.

Denturists are needed.

Other members of the dental team are needed.

Rather than debating which profession should “win,” the more useful conversation may be how each profession contributes to better patient outcomes.

And when policy needs to change, Sarah believes data and demonstrated outcomes are essential.

What does the future of patient-centered dentistry look like?

Sarah’s vision is straightforward:

Patients should not have to choose between taking care of their health and protecting themselves financially.

Getting there will require more than a new technology or clinical technique.

It requires a different philosophy of care.

Meet patients where they are.

Give them meaningful options.

Explain what is happening in language they understand.

Talk openly about cost.

Use the full capabilities of the dental workforce.

Prioritize prevention when prevention is appropriate.

Measure outcomes.

Collaborate across professional boundaries.

And remember that the purpose of the system is to care for people.

That may be the biggest lesson from Sound Dental Care.

Innovation does not always look like a new device, a new app, or a venture-backed technology company.

Sometimes innovation looks like taking care to the nursing home.

Sometimes it looks like allowing a hygienist to do everything their license allows.

Sometimes it looks like giving a patient one more option.

And sometimes making dental care more human begins by redesigning the system around the human sitting in front of us.

Frequently Asked Questions

What is mobile dentistry?

Mobile dentistry brings dental professionals, equipment, and services directly to patients outside a traditional dental office. This can include nursing homes, assisted-living settings, schools, workplaces, community locations, and patients' homes.

How can mobile dentistry improve access to care?

Mobile dentistry reduces barriers such as transportation, mobility, medical complexity, and difficulty navigating a traditional dental office. It is particularly useful for populations who may otherwise struggle to receive routine oral healthcare.

What is minimally invasive dentistry?

Minimally invasive dentistry focuses on preventing and managing disease while preserving healthy tooth structure whenever clinically appropriate. It can include preventive therapies, silver diamine fluoride, remineralization strategies, and less invasive restorative approaches.

What is silver diamine fluoride?

Silver diamine fluoride, commonly called SDF, is a topical treatment used to help manage dental caries. It can provide an additional treatment option in situations where conventional restorative treatment may not be the only appropriate approach.

Is silver diamine fluoride just for children?

No. While SDF is widely used in pediatric dentistry, it can also have applications for adults and older adults depending on the patient's clinical circumstances.

What is shared decision making in dentistry?

Shared decision making is an approach in which clinicians and patients work together to choose care based on clinical evidence, available treatment options, and the patient's individual goals, preferences, circumstances, and values.

Why is price transparency important in dental care?

Patients need to understand both the clinical and financial implications of treatment. Clear cost discussions can reduce uncertainty and allow patients to make more informed decisions about their care.

What is MOBY Dental?

MOBY Dental is a nonprofit focused on educating patients about minimally invasive dentistry and helping them identify providers who offer minimally invasive treatment options.

Who is Sarah Luetke?

Sarah Luetke is a dental hygienist, denturist, founder of Sound Dental Care, and co-founder of MOBY Dental. Her work focuses on expanding access to oral healthcare, particularly for geriatric and special-needs populations, while advancing preventive and minimally invasive models of care.

Listen to the conversation

Hear the full conversation with Sarah Luetke on the Season 7 premiere of Kinda Different, a podcast about innovation in dentistry and how we can work together to make dental care more human.

Transcript

I am Dr. Matt Allen. I'm the CEO and co-founder of DifferentKind, and your host for Kinda Different, a podcast where we talk about innovation and dental care. We connect with some absolutely amazing people today, there's no exception to that.
And we talk about how we all together can make dental care more human. I am super, super pumped to have a conversation today with someone who is really doing a lot in the dental world. And I think you're gonna continue to hear about more and more and more in the coming years as dentistry continues to evolve and change.
And so thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to have Sarah Luetke, who is the founder of Sound Dental Care. She's a denturist and a hygienist, as well as the founder of Sound Dental Care with us today. Sarah, thank you so much for taking time to be our kickoff guest for season seven of Kinda Different.
Tell us a little bit more about yourself and then we'll dive right in.
Thank you for having me, Matt. I just saw a little glitch in the Internet, so I hope it's all good.
Yeah, we're totally fine. We're good. We're doing it.
Yeah, all good.
Thank you for doing what you do with this podcast. I've been watching a lot of them and listening to them, and it's just inspiring to see other providers. Thank you.
Of course. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about yourself.
We've got name and title, but that's it. What do you care about? Who are you?
Give us a little bit more and then we'll dive into some questions.
Yeah. I'm Sarah Luetke. I am a mom, a wife, a provider, someone that's very passionate about taking care of people.
And that's why I entered the field of dentistry, and I really don't just want to do the status quo of what I've always done. I want to take care of people and make a big impact. And that's what I'm about.
You'll get to hear a little bit more about my experience through Matt's questions. But yeah, that's me.
Awesome. I love it. I love it.
I love it when, you know, it's like the first things first, right? First principles, right? You're a person first, right?
Which is always great. Cool. Well, let's, yeah, let's dive into a little bit more in terms of kind of thinking about innovation.
And you're certainly doing a lot in that arena. Tell us a little bit more about, you know, kind of where you're at specifically. And because I think that that probably plays a role in, you know, how you're innovating, right?
Like where you're at in the country. But then kind of the patient population that you tend to work with at Sound, some of those things, I would just love to have our listeners know just a little bit more about your work there.
Sure. So I reside in Washington state, and Washington has practice acts that allow dental hygienists to be independently practicing providers. And it's also one of the states that has denturists.
There's only seven states in the country that do. So I'm in a unique state with unique opportunities to really expand access to care. And I have chosen through Sound Dental Care to bring access to geriatric population and special needs populations in nursing homes.
And our practice started with zero patients and myself 10 years ago. And we now have 24 members and we have over 300 contracted facilities. And we just love taking care of people that really were not being seen and we're not giving the opportunity to have oral health care options.
Yeah. Well, so Sarah, like what I think is really interesting here, right, is residing in the dental tech space. So you get to see other companies that are getting funded and VC funding and all this stuff, right?
And there's a number of companies that are out there, right? Who have raised a lot of money and done a lot of things. I'm just like, hey, we're going to like go bring care to people.
And they're bringing it to just business buildings or whatever it might be. Right. And so this model, I think a lot of people are recognizing is like, hey, this is incredibly innovative.
And I think that there is an aspect of the patient populations that are maybe underserved. And certainly I come from that world, right? Of FQHCs and whatnot, where somehow if you're like taking mobile care to a business building, it's like, wow, that's super innovative.
If you're taking mobile care to a nursing home or skilled nursing facility, or somewhere else, it's like, oh, isn't that nice? Why do you think that disparity exists? And just tell me your thoughts on it, right?
Obviously, I have my own opinions on it, but curious to your thoughts there too.
Yeah. So I have always been someone that believes everyone in healthcare deserves access to care. And as a business owner, of course, you have to think about the financial side of everything.
And when we started Sound Dental Care, I said, the only way I will do this is if I can give equal opportunity to all patients. And in nursing homes, people are at the end few years of their life typically. And a lot of times, they're on medical spend downs or the financials just aren't there.
And this isn't just patients that have always been on Medicaid. These are people that had assets in their life that have depleted them. I had a family member that lived out her life in a nursing home for seven years, and it's expensive.
It will start to deplete assets. And so I didn't ever want to go into these facilities and say, we'll take these patients, but you're Medicaid patients we don't think about. Or it had to be everyone for me.
And the other thing that the nursing homes doesn't always have the same desire to serve, is you see a lot of people that are really not in a good place in their life, and they're struggling. Multiple comorbidities, they're in bed. It can be a very depressing situation.
We've had team members over the years that have started to work with us and say, I'm just not sure if I can do this. It might be really depressing, and I just encourage them, let's just keep with it a little bit. I'm here to guide you, walk with you, and we have never had one of them end up not taking the position and say, I can't do this.
They always say, I can't believe what it does for my heart.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, I just think that's the difference in what we do versus, I worked in an affluent community in a office and I took care of people. That was wonderful as well. But I need to, when I entered health care, I really wanted to make an impact and care for people.
And this is an impact.
Totally. Well, it reminds me one of one of my favorite kind of theologians. He ended up like spending his later years in a community around the world, large communities and people with just like developmental disabilities and essentially kind of like took care of this guy like one on one for like the last years of his life.
And, you know, yes, in the same way, like you're saying, it sounds like from the outside that might be incredibly difficult, right? But it can, you know, I mean, it changed him in so many ways, right? His book about it called Road to Daybreak is just phenomenal that talks about the impact that had on him, right?
And so I think a lot of times, you know, I certainly see these those opportunities too, where it's like, no, there's there's market there. And yeah, like you might not just be like, you know, skimming off the like, hey, here's the patients with the best insurance. But, you know, there is a business to be had there.
Right. And a meaningful one, right? You have 24 employees and you have the opportunity to kind of meet folks who really need care in a meaningful way.
So I absolutely love the model and what you're doing. And not only do you do that, right? Like you run Sound Dental Care, but you also have MOBY Dental.
We had Dr. Jeremy Horsekeeper on last season. He was our kickoff guest of season six. We're kicking off the seasons here with some really great minimally invasive care and thinking about, you know, the progression of that.
And so he was talking about an organization that I think you started, MOBY Dental, as well. Tell us a little bit more about that if folks didn't listen to that episode. It was season six, episode one.
So if you want to go back and check it out, go for it and do it. But tell us a little bit more about that and how that developed out of some of what you're doing at Sound and other things that you have going on as well.
Yeah, thank you for bringing that up because MOBY is a passion of mine. It's a non-profit, so I'm not making money on MOBY. It's definitely a passion that runs alongside what I was seeing and experiencing at Sound.
When I started Sound Dental Care was the same exact year that silver dimine fluoride was brought to approved by the FDA. I had that in my toolbox as an independent hygienist to use, and it was so valuable because the patients in nursing homes regardless of their socioeconomic status, their financial status, all of them come to the same point at the end of their life. Dry mouth, increased caries, root tips, it's profound.
Extractions and invasive work isn't necessarily always in their best health interest, and we work directly with the primary care providers in the buildings and they're like, we don't want all these extracted. Silver dimine became something that I really dug into early on, and it's the foundation of our practice. And because we end up having to talk to legal decision makers, whether it be guardians or power of attorney, to educate them, to get them to enroll their senior parent in our program, we educate them about silver dimine fluoride and minimally invasive care.
And almost every single time I talk to someone, they say, I've never heard of it. Why can't I? Why am I not offered that at my dental office?
And it was many, many years of just beating my head against a wall saying, but I'm educating these people, they want it, and they're going to their dental offices and asking for it. And they're being told it's only for kids or it's only for really limited situations. And while I respect traditional dentistry model, I also feel that there is room for minimally invasive care.
And I feel like that model needs to be respected as well and offered to patients. So MOBY Dental, that is how MOBY Dental came about. We are like, we really want a non-profit that educates patients and that links them to providers that will offer this care because we're sending patients with the education we gave them, handouts, flyers, links to everything.
They're educating themselves, going back to their own dentist and being turned down on this. And then they just continue how they've always done. And they'll come back to us and say, my dentist didn't do that, do you have a dentist for me?
Can I come to you? And I said, we only work in nursing homes. So that's how MOBY started.
And I really do a lot of work with Dr. Jeremy Horse, Dr. Steve Duffin. There's many people on that minimally invasive care model that I've learned from. We're just trying to really empower patients to know that there's other options.
Sometimes more invasive work is definitely needed, but it doesn't have to be the only option.
Well, to that point of like, hey, as soon as I know about this and then I'm going back and talking about my dentist. I mean, even I feel that, right? Where as a dentist, I'm taking my kids to San Francisco to go see Jeremy.
We're traveling to go receive care because it's like, cool, I just know that the alignment is going to be there. And so it's hard even from a professional perspective to be like, I want something really different than what you might be able to provide. And so I love the fact that it's like finding values aligned care is really difficult and something that I think we've obviously thought about.
DifferentKind a lot, and so I love that you've taken a step there to say, hey, if this is the kind of care that you're seeking, or if you're a provider who's doing this kind of care already, here's a community that you can join, that you can be a part of, that will help you realize you're not alone. Because it's maybe not as prevalent as we might want to see right now, but I think over the next 10 years, certainly, I think we're going to see a lot more changes in that direction. So I love what you're doing there.
You've talked a lot about already some pretty inspiring folks. Jeremy, we mentioned Steve Duffin, there's a lot of pillars out there that have done a lot of this work, and certainly, I know a lot of people look up to you. So I always love to know from folks who are doing really innovative things, taking a step, doing something that really hasn't been done before.
Who are you looking to? Who's inspiring you right now and why? What are they doing that's making you be like, wow, that's really cool too.
Yeah. So people that are inspiring me right now are health care providers that are doing redesigning, how health care has always been delivered. And that's not just dentistry, that's medicine, dentistry.
There's so many things that we just get stuck in our way. We're trained a certain way, that's what we do, we've always done it, we build this way. And redesigning the systems that can meet people where they are, they're more equitable and more preventative versus reactive, I'm a hygienist and preventative is what I strive for.
And so their willingness to stand up against these giants, if you will, that are saying that this isn't a way to practice, it's a hard thing. And especially for me as a mid-level provider, because there's a lot of resistance towards mid-level providers. And with due respect, I know where my ground is.
I know I'm not a dentist, but I do know that I'm a good hygienist and I'm a good denturist, and I can offer care in different ways. So I really respect people that, whether it be a dentist or a mid-level provider, that are thinking outside the box. It's not easy.
We all get attacked on it.
Totally. Well, a few thoughts there. Number one, I know that that's the traditional term at the mid-level provider, but I've always been a believer that it really doesn't do justice to what hygienists do in our practices or in medical, right?
Like the PAs and the NPs and those kinds of things, I think, are just the foundation of so much of health care, right? So yeah, are there surgical skills that you can't do? Sure.
But does that mean that hygienists don't have such a crucial role to play? So I don't love that term. I don't know how you feel about it, but I don't love it because I think it really sells short of what hygiene brings to the table in so many ways, and I'm sure you probably believe that as well.
And then secondly there too, I think one of the interesting things that that word redesign, I think we talk a lot about that in health care now. And one of the things that I think folks think about when they think about different stuff, like, okay, so if I'm going to do it differently than the way I've always done it, it probably means more, right? It probably means do what you've done plus something else, right?
Like I'm going to have to shove more into the same amount of time. And that is a really bad way of looking at it, in my opinion. The ability to redesign and to, I love the word reimagine, right?
Because I feel like it kind of puts us in that like creative space of like, if we started with zero, right? And in this 20 or 30 minute or 40 minute appointment or whatever it is, start with zero, what would you actually like want to do? Where would you want to spend the time instead of, okay, well, I've already got 37 minutes accounted for, what am I going to do with three extra, right?
Or, you know, I've already got 54 minutes accounted for in that 40 minute appointment and now you want me to do something else? Like, no way, that's not happening, right? And so to me, that's always been the jumping off point in some of these conversations with folks is like, how do we step back, you know?
And reimagine, not just, you know, add more on, right? So curious to your perspective on either both of those thoughts.
Yeah, so adding more on, you know, when I was an employee, I felt that way. But as a leader for my team now, one thing that I have really done at Sound is I don't put people in a box. And that is our, we, we entrust people, we know that they're trained, they're able to meet certain criteria.
And it's about the patient. When you make the appointment about the patient and not about the number, the numbers follow. And I know numbers when you're in a business, you have to talk about them.
I'm the business owner, I get it. But it's really got to be about the patient. And when your providers are put in a position where they aren't thinking, oh, I have to see 10 patients today, I have to see eight patients, I have to do this many crowns, I have to do this many fillings or this many cleanings.
It's you do what the patient needs, you give them the best care you can give in that time period, and now we insert minimally invasive care, and you could do a lot more in that time, and the patient has a better outcome, you can bill for things that are minimally invasive care. And you build this trust with the patient in that whole process as well. It's not like I just went in and I feel like they were just trying to tick the financial book up everything they said to me.
Yeah. So it's interesting there. Now, there was a second question, you're gonna have to redirect me back to that one.
Oh, it's okay. Just the point about like hygiene being mid-level, I just, you know, to me, it's just so crucial.
Thank you for pointing that out, Matt. I always have been very respectful of dentists. Dentists put their time in, they do the schooling, I could have chosen that path and I didn't.
So I definitely understand I am not a dentist and that mid-level provider, I'm okay with it because I found, maybe when I was in a dental office, the mid-level provider didn't fill as great. But I see how I've been empowered as a mid-level provider in my state, and what I've been able to do, and so I no longer look at it like that. I look at it as, you know what?
I'm just leading a team that gets to take care of patients and that's pretty cool. I don't care if I'm a mid-level provider or a dentist.
Well, you do certainly do live in a state where they've embraced that, and embraced working to the top of the license and certainly I do as well here in Colorado and there are several others around the country that it probably feels a lot better in those ways because there is a recognition of there's a lot you can do without a dentist as well. So love it. I imagine that this is difficult work, right?
Like you've talked about how it's challenging from even like, hey, this is heavy, this is hard, different challenges that you're facing. What is the biggest kind of thing that you seem to be facing right now in 2026, the beginning of 2026, and kind of what is your vision of how you might overcome that biggest challenge right now?
Yeah. So I would say it's definitely navigating the traditional health care system, dental system, while advocating to push for more transparent, preventative, and more patient focused care with all providers, not just a dentist, but once again, the mid-level provider. The status quo of how dentistry has always been done is being challenged a little bit this time because we have more tools in our toolbox.
We have medicine to help us with decay now. We don't only have to drill and fill. So this enters different scenarios and there's a lot of resistance.
So that's definitely the challenge. I think I'm navigating it by collaborating instead of becoming confrontational. I'm collaborating with dentists.
I'm collaborating with hygienists, with denturists. I'm collaborating with all the dental team players because we're still all needed. We all are needed to care for our patients.
But the collaboration and just trying to stay positive in this environment, evolving scope, policy changes. Of course, we know that data and outcomes are what change policy. And so we have a lot of data through our program and we've seen wonderful outcomes.
And our team is focused on continuing to use those outcomes to make change.
Yeah. Certainly collaboration, right? Like in the realm that you're operating in has to involve policy and has to involve those kind of bigger picture things too, right?
Which I know that you're actively working on and doing. So I love that it can take the patient, the face-to-face view, right? And it can zoom out and take the macro view of, okay, cool, how do we enable more folks like yourself to do this around the country or in Washington or wherever it might be?
So I love that you're thinking about both of those things. So you're kind of talking about navigating this challenge here and whatever. And I think with any great visionary leaders, it's always like we imagine the world differently than it is now, right?
And you probably have a pretty clear articulation of that. So when you think about, you mentioned sound has been around for 10 years now, or yeah, 10, right? Okay.
Yeah. So when you kind of imagine like, okay, this is where we're at now, here's where we're going to get to. Tell me about that future vision for what you see being able to accomplish in our profession and just in your work as well.
Yeah. So definitely going to talk more about our profession on this one than just as sound. Because if I could change one thing about dental care or health care in general, it would be that patients don't have to choose between their health and finances.
Based on my experience, especially working with the population I have, many people want to take care of their health, but the financial aspect overwhelms them. They aren't given alternative options and they just shut down and they don't care for themselves. I really feel like dentistry and health care, but dentistry, because that's what we're talking about here, needs to change that and it's all of our responsibility to do that.
We took vows to be providers that care for people and we can't just say we care for people when it makes sense for us. That's something that I wish I could change. That's a big goal.
Yeah. I mean, that financial aspect of how do we think about this, I think is such a crucial part of this. But I think even what you're saying there, too, is if only patients are offered the old model of, hey, you have a cavity, you need a filling, and then you come back and that cavity needs another filling.
It doesn't make sense. It feels frustrating as a patient. It feels like no matter what I do, there's no way out of this.
And it's true in a lot of ways. We all know the tooth death spiral and all of those things. To me, when I think about that aspect too, it's when we involve people in their decisions, when we get them on board, when we give them the options, that now they feel empowered.
And instead of feeling like maybe the outcome is the same, maybe they decide to do that filling, maybe they decide to do that crown or that implant, or whatever it is. But when they say, hey, I'm the one who's made the choice here, I feel like far too many people in dentistry feel like they're passengers, they're just recipients of care, instead of active participants in care, and certainly that needs to change. And so certainly, I think it probably goes along with what you're saying there.
Definitely. And I'll piggyback on to that. Don't like to put health care and dental in comparison with youth bar salesman or the mechanic.
But for me as a female, I'm not very mechanically inclined when it comes to my cars. So when I take my car in, I have to trust what they say. And I've always felt like, well, just tell me I need this, this, and this.
Do I really? And they do tell you the price there, right? They tell you right there, the person that's telling you, you need to do this also tells you the cost at that point.
But then you have to make the decision if you're going to move forward with it or not. And I feel like dentistry does that. However, the one thing as a hygienist, what I always had happen when I was in the dental office is I would spend the majority of the appointment with the patient and I would kind of not diagnose, but I would coach them, this is what I found and this is probably what the doctor is going to come in and say.
And then the doctor would come in and say, yep, you need a crown here or yes, you need a filling here. And then the doctor wouldn't even talk about the financial aspect piece. He would leave the room and the patient would say, well, how much is that going to cost?
And they were given one option and how much is it going to cost? Or they're sent out to a treatment planning room where they talk about the cost with a business person. And so as the hygienist, when I was talking about scaling and root cleaning, perio maintenance, all these different types of cleanings, I got those questions and I just met it head on instead of avoiding the cost discussion.
And when I avoided it and educated the patient, I went through their photos, I showed them what I saw in the x-rays, I showed them the tartar level buildup. The patients didn't feel like it was a used car salesman. They were like, I see why I need it.
And they accepted my treatment plans all the time. So I really feel like being able to discuss the uncomfortable financial aspect of it, along with being the provider who's doing the work, and then gives them the reasons why, it goes a long way. So that's the best piece.
Yeah, 100%. And even if that other option is just no treatment, right? Like, you can do this, here's the potential risks for that, right?
Like, we're not trying to scare you, like, this is what could happen. Here's the likelihood of that happening, right? Like, it might be small.
So great. But like, you know, if you want to avoid those small risks, like, here's the option, right? And then that allows people to feel empowered to be like, okay, I'm willing to take that risk, or no, I'm not.
Like, I want to actively opt into that treatment, right? So I joke with people where I'm like, your treatment plan exception should always be 100% because your treatment plan should always include no treatment, right? Like, and if you do, then people are more likely psychologically to actually opt into the things that they actually probably need instead of feeling like they're backed into a corner and, hey, like, this is what you need to do, right?
And, you know, I think to me, that's the best way. Maybe, maybe people who are out there, you know, talking about selling dentistry feel differently. But I feel like when we start from that, like, hey, how would I want to be treated?
Well, how would I want to, like, be given options here in general? Or how would people not even just me, right? Because what I might want might be different than what you want.
But I think there's just a general human sense of, like, yeah, like we generally want options, so. Yeah.
And I think we have more options now with silver diamine. You know, we have that treatment, more invasive option. Then we have this other treatment option and then we have nothing.
It used to just be one or nothing. And now we do have a few levels of treatment and we could still manage disease in a lot of ways with both options. Not always, but a lot of times.
And it's not just for kids and it's not just for geriatric patients, it's for everyone. And so yeah, nothing would make me happier than to feel like you could walk to any dentist down the street in the country and they're going to give you like, hey, here's what we see, here's the diagnosis, here's what your options are. And there are a number of them.
And you know, what works best for you, right? Like to me, that feels so much more in line with how health care probably should be in my vision. So, probably yes too.
Yes. Cool. Well, I love this conversation.
I love what you're doing. Like, I love, you know, Sound, I love MOBY. I love just how you're innovating and I've seen a problem, met it head on.
It's super inspiring. If people want to learn more both about what you're doing at Sound or they're like, hey, I'm interested in MOBY. You can tell us where they should go.
Direct them, please.
Yeah, definitely. So sounddentalcare.com, 2 Ds, else you'll miss it there. That's where you can learn more about our nursing home model that we do and you'll also see some great videos.
Also, the thing I love most about the site is the feedback from the patients and the facility staff that we serve. It's amazing. Sometimes I just go read them because it makes me feel good.
Then also MOBY is MOBY, M-O-B-Y, dental.org. Love to have you visit that site as well. It's in its infancy somewhat, so we're still building the site.
I think we have 36 providers listed on our map right now. We want to fill that map with as many minimally invasive care providers. Please reach out and it doesn't mean that you can't do other types of dentistry, but you've got to give patients the options of both types to be on our site.
We'd love to have people join. If you're a patient listening to this and you're looking for a minimally invasive care provider, if you don't see one in your state, please let us know if you find one and we'll reach out to them. But yeah, thanks Matt.
Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much Sarah. We really appreciate the conversation.
Thank you for all the great work that you're doing and so many different ways. You're, like I said, you're leading and doing so much that is so necessary for our profession. So gratitude to you.
Thank you so much and what a great way to kick off season seven. We appreciate you.

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